Tagged: Motioncontrolsucks Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

  • zegolf 10:47 am on August 5, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , Motioncontrolsucks   

    Hey Gang, sorry about not making it last night. We got hellish storms and I had to shut down for fear of losing equipment. Before I knew it, it was bedtime! Hopefully I can catch it another time, but I hear it was quite a lot of fun!

    So, I originally cashed out about $150 in Amazon gift cards to pick up a new graphics card for my PC, but considering the new MBP runs games WAY better (even bootcamped) than my PC ever could with a new GPU, I’m sitting on some money. What scares me, is that I’m going to pick up Kinect. So, that being said, I was hoping I could get the opinion of anyone that may have seen this tech, as to why, or why not, I should consider getting it.

    And go.

  • feenwager 2:46 am on June 15, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: Motioncontrolsucks   

    @jeffgrubb welcome. May I direct you to the E3 2010 tag? I believe we made our feelings pretty clear. And funny.

  • zegolf 3:51 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: Motioncontrolsucks   

    @A.J. Hmm…point taken. I guess only time will tell.

  • zegolf 3:44 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , Motioncontrolsucks   

    I’m with @feenwager on this one. I started out on a 2600 (so I’m not QUITE as old) and have, for the longest time, thought that the concept of controller+system+tv was a.o.k with me. You throw in a whole new concept of motion control, and it seems as though you’re taking away that which is the most basic and pure about games. I think, at the root of it, I’m just afraid of change. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve started to see things come into existence that I didn’t understand because I was getting too old for them. I don’t want that to happen to my precious games. If it gets to the point that I can no longer play a game because I have have to worry about slipping a disc or whether or not I’m going to be sore the next day, that creeps me out a bit. I have a Wii, and I thought it was great with the whole motion control concept. In reality, it fell short for a lot of games and the only ones I play now have a brief hint of waggle, and then I’m turning the controller right back to the NES style grip.

    That’s borderline moot point, though, because I realize that I’m quickly approaching the cut-off for key demographics and that I’m going to have to accept that one day. Getting old sucks.

    In all actuality, I think my major problem with Kinect and Move is that we’ve only thus far seen copycat games associated with the devices. I’m not going to quote the major news blogs, but I don’t think we’d disagree that we’re getting another batch of Wii Fits, Just Dances and Wii Sports Resorts. I got into an argument with someone one twitter (real mature, right?) about how I thought Kinect was going to sell like gangbusters right out of the gate and be collecting dust in 6-12 months without a triple A title to go along with it. The only thing we’ve seen so far is a mock-up of a lightsaber game (admittedly bad ass if it actually worked) that wasn’t even legitimate. He argued that I “just had to give it time” and I should stop hating on it. I strongly disagree with that. If you want me to accept change and welcome it with open arms, don’t give me a pee-trickle stream of games out of the gate and expect me to stick around and wait for the good stuff.

    Those of you that know me, know I have strong negative emotions towards Apple devices,. However, companies could learn a few things from them, no matter what business they’re in. Apple devices work and make truckloads of money because they take the time to make sure they debut a new device with some bang-up software behind it. The iPhone’s success doesn’t ride entirely on the mobile device, because let’s be honest, it hasn’t changed much over iterations. It’s big seller is the plethora of apps and games and what-have-you that back it up (although the device isn’t THAT bad itself). If M$ could have got Clifford B to do something like @George said, and sneak in a few Kinect moments into Gears 3, I’d be the first in line for buying it, but I’m not paying $150 to jump a raft down a river and kick a soccer ball at some little kid. I can do that for free in the neighborhood park.

    I can see where you’re coming from A.J., because your optimism with this device is astounding, but I can only drink the kool-aid so much before I start wondering if it’ll finally be the death of me.

    I WANT Kinect to work. I want total immersion in my gaming experience. I just don’t want my gaming experience to be dancing to Lady Gaga while rafting down an imaginary river.

  • Pete Davison 3:42 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , Motioncontrolsucks   

    Hey George. I knew getting @MimiK on board would get you to show your face over here finally 🙂

    I like your idea. I remember the first time I played MGS and the moments you described happened. They were awesome. To be truly effective, though, they need to be unexpected. Knowing that you require a Kinect for use “at some point” during the game would be a bit of a giveaway. Although it could fuck with you and pretend it was watching when it actually wasn’t, I guess.

    I’m thinking games like Heavy Rain would particularly benefit from what you describe. Heavy Rain already makes good (and sparing) use of the SixAxis by limiting violent, motion-sensitive movements to when you’re doing violent or “sudden” moves. The fight scenes are hugely satisfying by nature of the fact that you know you’re delivering a big-ass punch if you have to slam the controller into their face.

  • George 3:35 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: backinthesaddle, , ilovemimik, , Motioncontrolsucks   

    The Squawkbox lives!

    Re: motion controls, I’m not sure I’d ever feel compelled to play a game that revolved entirely around the kind of motion that Microsoft thinks we want. BUT, you bet your ass I’d make a game that used one or two isolated incidents of motion control to shock or surprise the player, in the fashion of Metal Gear Solid’s “back of the box” codec moment, Psycho Mantis’ mind reading, or the hidden voice responses in Manhunt 2 (plug a headset into your PS2 and the game can hear you breathing).

    Imagine a traditional action game played with a controller, but in a climactic moment during the final struggle your partner, squadmate or (cough) romantic interest (what?) is thrown to the edge of a cliff, and the game says “Quick! Don’t let her fall!” In the grip of a properly orchestrated dramatic moment, you lunge forward, grab her hand and pull her up to continue the fight. And that would be the only moment in the entire game when motion controls are used. Would I develop, manufacture and market motion controls just to do that? No. But if someone else is already building them, I’ll gladly take advantage of anything that broadens my opportunities for messing with a player’s mind. 😛

    And speaking of disabilities, someone tell the people making 3D movies and games that somewhere around 17% of us are physiologically unable to see their fancy new eye candy and would rather not be left out in the cold, thanks.

  • Pete Davison 3:27 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , Motioncontrolsucks   

    @MimiK Don’t worry, I was being facetious. 🙂

    I think the “problem” that we have at the moment is that motion control came about as a “cool new technology” without people thinking in great detail about the applications first. In the case of Kinect (and probably EyeToy before it) it’s as if some guy burst into a board meeting saying “Guys! Guys! Camera! Gaming! I made it so a person on screen can do stuff! Isn’t that AWESOME! Let’s make loads of them!” and then everyone agreed to it without really thinking about what the “stuff” that the person on screen should be doing actually is.

    Look at the Wii. There’s a ton of bullshit out there that uses the technology completely unnecessarily, but then you have stuff like, say, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories which makes use of pretty much everything the Wii Remote has to offer to create an incredibly immersive experience.

    And I see while I was typing this, @feenwager has said almost the same thing as me. These things take time to develop. Some people don’t have the patience for it. That’s why the diversification that games have undergone is a hugely positive thing – you don’t have to wait around for it to get good, because there’s plenty of stuff out there that already is good that you can play in the meantime. In fact, so much stuff that you can probably rely exclusively on it and never have to touch motion control at all if you don’t want to. Just like some people never get beyond Wii Play and Mario Kart.

  • feenwager 3:24 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , Motioncontrolsucks   

    @A.J. I hear ya, but here’s where I’m coming at this from: I’ve been playing games from the very beginning. My first console was something that literally only played variations on Pong. And I played it on a black & white TV. Uphill. In the snow.

    I’ve watched every “awesome new advancement” and the piece of shit games that inevitably come before someone figures out how to marry the new tech with gameplay. I was the guy poo-pooing the Playstation when it dragged us all kicking and screaming into 3D gaming. Was it the right thing in the end? Sure, but Toshinden sucked giant 3D balls.

    Long and short of it? I no longer have the patience to endure the garbage that will accompany the “revolution” that is 3D TVs and motion control. Someone wake me up when the games get good. And don’t require glasses. Or standing.

  • Mitu 3:20 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , Motioncontrolsucks   

    @angryjedi I read back over my post and saw no “big words”. D: I should probably worry about myself. I did, however, say ‘very much’, er, ‘very much’, ignore me. Got too enthusiastic, hehe. 😀

    I agree – the wider the medium, the more people will get involved – but, not only that, we’ll also have a wider range of games and game-like experiences available to us all. This can only mean that games will just pervade our lives even more, and complement the kinds of experiences (meaningful, and otherwise) that we’re used to getting from other media. Ultimately, I think games, and play have so much left to teach us about what it is to be human.

    Anyway, enough of the hopeless idealism.

    Re: accessibility for those with disabilities, yes, this march towards body-centred interaction is definitely a problem, and I tried lecturing a class once on the topic! I think the key here is good, redundant design. Devs need to think about these issues up front, and even where motion-controlled gaming is concerned, ensure there is a way for those with disabilities, no matter what they are, to play too. Thinking about this stuff when a game idea is first conceived is, of course, also cheaper than trying to add it as an afterthought.

  • RocGaude 3:19 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: change, Motioncontrolsucks   

    @AJ Bitching about change is a human past time that will never evolve. It doesn’t bother me as long as the bitching is funny. Keep it comin’, Feen.

  • Pete Davison 3:15 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , Motioncontrolsucks,   

    @A.J. A well considered and thoughtful piece, thanks for sharing. I think you’re absolutely right. As @MimiK said below you, gaming has undergone such a Cambrian Explosion (I’d never heard that term before, to my shame, so I’m going to use it as much as possible today) that there really is something for almost everyone now. Motion control may suck for people who aren’t interested in it, but I don’t think that necessarily removes all trace of validity from it.

    Do you walk into a DVD store and think you should be able to buy any of the DVDs and enjoy it? Or do you visit a restaurant and think everything on the menu will be delicious to you? Do you like all forms of music? Do you like reading any book ever?

    If the answer to any of those questions is “no”, then just think about that if you find yourself getting worried about motion control. It’s not going to be a replacement. It’s going to be a diversification.

    I hope, anyway. 🙂

  • feenwager 3:10 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: Motioncontrolsucks   

    @rocgaude I don’t have a problem with anything that leads to great games. I just don’t see it happening. Not now, and possibly not ever.

  • RocGaude 3:08 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , Motioncontrolsucks   

    For the record, I have no problem with motion controls. The concept is pretty keen and I’m sure that devs will get to a point where they’re able to whip out some great games that make you want to get up and swing around like an idiot. It’s just that we’re not seeing anything yet that’s transcended lameland.

  • Pete Davison 3:03 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , Motioncontrolsucks   

    Hey @MimiK, great to see you here 🙂 Also, you use lots of big words. You’ll fit right in!

    I find the motion control question pretty interesting too. What’s your take on what we discussed earlier; about applications for those with disabilities or impaired mobility? I’m hoping my friend Ben who made the original comment will put in an appearance soon and give his take.

    I agree with the “Cambrian Explosion” idea. This came up when Roger Ebert was shooting his mouth off a few weeks back. I read a great blog post on the subject which pointed out that it was almost silly to call games “games” any more, because they’re not just about “play”. Sometimes they’re about telling stories. Sometimes they’re competitive. Sometimes they’re a social event. Sometimes they’re a work of art. And sometimes they just… are. Over the last few years there has been such a diversification in the medium that it’s difficult to pin down one quintessential “game”. In fact, I’d say it’s impossible. I’m all for that, though. The wider the medium, the more people who will get involved.

  • Mitu 2:57 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , , Motioncontrolsucks,   

    Saying hi as requested! Ooh, this place has an interesting format. Let’s see if I get this right.

    @zegolf Re: Kinect – you see, I was actually kind of looking forward to this, but yes, I really don’t think they’ve got it right at all, as clearly demonstrated by the shenanigans last night with Cirque du Soleil. We’ll see what happens, though. The lineup of games does seem indeed poor, but I’m not at all surprised. I think motion-based games will indeed mature, but we’re not there yet.

    This Kinect/Move stuff is all pretty interesting in terms of both my research interests and my general philosophy of What Games Are, actually. My PhD work is currently looking at what happens as innovations in controller technology improve, how we can measure this notion of player embodiment, and what this seeming march towards a cybernetic hegemony and body-centred interaction means for game design. Interestingly, I’m personally *more* interested in the idea of abstraction in games, and these are the games I primarily seek to make, but I don’t think we can ignore the other end of the spectrum either. I’m very much into the idea that the span of What Games Are will keep broadening, and that’s very much okay. I very much agree with the Wrightian idea that video games are undergoing a Cambrian Explosion.

    But yes. Anyway. Rambling. Lots of Microsoft fail re: Kinect so far at E3.

  • Pete Davison 2:13 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: Motioncontrolsucks   

    @unmanneddrone: I’m actually a little more positive on motion control than most. I recognise that it’s not going to be great for core gamers (or at least nothing we’ve seen so far is, anyway) but I agree with your points below – it could potentially be good for rehab.

    But I’m talking about someone, say, confined to a wheelchair who can’t get up and maybe has enough motor control in their upper body to hold a controller and enjoy games using that, but can’t wave their arms around or anything.

  • unmanneddrone 2:07 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: Motioncontrolsucks   

    @angryjedi @feenwager I’m not particularly sold on the idea of this move *cough* towards total waggle gaming, but on the flipside of disabled gaming, Kinect sounds like one avenue to use in rehabilitation and therapy for exercising motor skills. It’d be great for kids born with palsies or hemiplegia or the need to develop gross hand-eye coordination – no actual controllers to handle and a visual response/action-reaction as vibrant as developers can provide. That’s just for upper-body work, too. It’s got potential, just perhaps lacking an immediate validity to core gamers.

  • feenwager 1:59 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: Motioncontrolsucks   

    @angryjedi I had the same thought about people with disabilities. I guess they’re used to getting screwed at this point. Sad.

  • Pete Davison 1:55 pm on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , Motioncontrolsucks, ,   

    @feenwager: Actually, a friend of mine raised a very good point about Kinetinatalmovewii. What about people with disabilities? They’re pretty fucked if they can’t stand up to play a game, huh? Or if their condition means that their body mobility isn’t great. Or if they tire easily.

    Of course, you can’t please everyone all the time. But I can only imagine what it must be like for someone with impaired mobility to see all this stuff about “the next big thing” and think… “well, what about me? I need my controller.”

  • feenwager 11:46 am on June 14, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , Motioncontrolsucks   

    I’ll say this once, and only once: if I have to stand up and play it, it ain’t happening.

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